Michele Davis  00:03

You are listening to the Created For Podcast.

We believe that everyone was created to make a unique impact in the world.

Created For is a podcast exploring ideas around purpose, calling and discovering how God is inviting you to influence the world in your own way, right now.

I’m your host, Michele Davis. Trying to figure out your calling is hard. Understatement of the year, right?

So to help us out, my friend Chris Ghubril and I are asking all the hard questions to leadership coach and consultant Tracey Gee. Her natural curiosity combined with years of ministry and leadership experience has made her a genius at helping people discover how God has uniquely wired them, and how that can help us discern both what we do and how we do it.

Tracey! Hey, thanks so much for joining us today. Chris and I are just really excited to dig in with you and hear more about what’s on your heart, especially as we’re thinking about helping people find their purpose. But first, what really helps me find my purpose is knowing the great places to eat when I travel, and you live in a wonderful city LA with amazing food everywhere. If I’m like visiting LA, where’s the place I have to go to?

Tracey Gee  01:31

We could spend the whole time talking about that, probably given my love of food. And given the amazing options in LA. You’re absolutely right. You know, my parents are from China and Taiwan. And my mom often says that the Chinese food in the San Gabriel Valley is better than what she’s had in Asia. So that should tell you something, like there’s excellent, little, small hole-in-the-wall joints in San Gabriel Valley. And nicer, like, fancier. You know, there’s the whole gamut. So you name it. There are fantastic Chinese food options. There are dumplings, noodles, all the things. So if you ever get a chance to go out there, that’s where you head for like, the really good, authentic Chinese food.

Chris Ghubril  02:18

I can get behind that.

Michele Davis  02:19

I do too. I love dumplings and noodles. Oh, well, so Tracey, we would love to first just hear a lot more about your work. Because we know that you help people invest in themselves; they can understand themselves. But what exactly do you like as your title? I was trying to explain to even a friend today like I’m interviewing Tracey Gee, and she does all these amazing things that I read about. But tell me more, the title, and how you would describe it?

Tracey Gee  02:51

Yes. So I describe myself as a leadership coach and consultant. But there’s a lot to unpack with that. So what I mean by that is I’m deeply interested in what makes people unique. How God has created them to be. What are their passions and strengths? And how does that come out to impact the world? So I mean, leadership in a fairly broad sense. I don’t just mean like, you know, you’re the executive of some company. I mean it in a very personhood centered way.

So that’s the closest that I’ve come to describing that. And like I said, I tend to take an approach that is more holistic, more person centered, like starting from, what does it look like for people to be healthy, to understand their strengths, understand their gifts, and how they want to bring that out in the world and use that on behalf of their communities and the people that they care about.

So I get why it’s a little hard to explain because it is the kind of big picture, it’s a lot of these things, but I really believe in the fact that leadership is not just something you do, it’s not the actions you take when you’re leading a meeting. That leadership at its best is really rooted in personhood, and who we are and who God has made us to be.

I like to joke that I am an expert in why other people are geniuses. So that’s another way that I also describe myself because my training is very much also from a strengths-based perspective, trying to look and see like, what is really strong about people, what’s really great about them. I think there’s a lot of mindset things that cause us to look at where we’re deficient and where we don’t measure up and where other people seem like they have it all together and we’re lacking. You know, there’s like a lot in sort of the weakness kind of approach to growth and I really try to take that opposite effect, which is starting from, like, what’s really awesome about you, what are your strengths and how do I help people not take that for granted? So again, I would like to only half-jokingly because I do think there’s some truth to that, I’m an expert in why people are geniuses.

Michele Davis  05:04

That’s amazing. I love that so much. An expert in why other people are geniuses. I think, what you just talked about there about the difference between going to a strengths-based versus weakness-based approach to growth? Is this a new thought? Are you finding that as you talk to people, like, does this feel like a new thing that you’re bringing into conversations with people, to help them reset their mind to think through their strength?

Tracey Gee  05:38

It’s definitely based on a more emerging field called positive psychology. So it’s not my own original thoughts. It’s definitely rooted in some of that research and thinking. Yes, but I do find that weakness mindset, like I said, it’s so ingrained in us, you know, it’s just kind of in the air that we breathe, and it does take some mindful intention to examine that and be like, where does that come from? And does that really serve us? And what does that look like? So yes, I do find that often it takes some unlearning to unpack that a little bit because we sort of naturally gravitate towards that, you know, even with my training, I can get caught up in that, you know, so my kid brings home a report card, and I immediately go to the lowest one and be like, what’s up with this? Let’s spend your time and energy in getting that up. And, you know, to be fair, you do need to. It’s not like you have to ignore those things or not spend any time on that. But I realize it’s a discipline for me to also be like, Oh, but tell me about this thing that you love. Like, you love science today. What’d you talk about? Why was that interesting to you? Why was that energy … let’s also give the same if not more attention to those things that naturally you love and enjoy and our strengths and not just focus, like, immediately have my eye go to the lowest score here.

Chris Ghubril  07:06

That is a dream. I love that. I was always that person growing up: “You have a 97%, why isn’t it 100?”

Tracey Gee  07:14

Totally!

Michele Davis  07:15

My dad said that too.

Chris Ghubril  07:21

The worst grade, I can get it, was the A minus because it meant I knew the answers but I didn’t do it right. But no, I appreciate the strength-based like you love that. Something that I’ve been trying to do with my kids. Instead of ask them, “Oh, how was your day? How was Sunday school? How was XYZ?” I started asking them, like, “Hey, did you help anyone today?” I kind of like reframing that in light of what are we doing to encourage like our development, our character and how we are already strengthening in that.

Tracey Gee  07:51

That’s beautiful. I like that.

Chris Ghubril  07:53

It’s like I’m in a coaching session with you at this moment. But I heard you say, like, you’re talking about individual calling and communal calling. And as a man who comes from a collectivistic background, like I’m Arab American, I view the world very collectivistically. How do you navigate that tension of being true to who you are, and holding the uniqueness that you are, but responding and reporting to your community with integrity, and honoring that? How do you navigate those communal and individual callings?

Tracey Gee  08:30

Oh, that’s a great question that I don’t know that I have all the answers to. I think what I’ve noticed is that I think we really need a both-and, you know, and if people are feeling stuck, sometimes that can be rooted in kind of over attention to the communal and thinking, like, well, I’m going to let down this idea of success in my community, or this or that. And my conviction is that in the mystery of God and how God has created us that … actually, if we do lean into those things that are unique in our calling, that it will be for the good of the communal, it will be for the good of the world, you know, in general, as well as like the communities that matter to us. And that sometimes, if we’ve been raised in a highly collectivist community, it might be more helpful to lead with that because sometimes people get stuck if they just are like, I don’t want to let down you know, this idea of success and instead, sometimes the invitation can be, well, you know what, trust that as you explore what brings you life and what you know, lights you up and what you feel like you might uniquely be called to do even if that’s at first different than these other ideas thatcan be somehow for the good of the people that you care about. And seeing that as actually an act of care and love for your community rather than just out and out in that rebellion or something like that. So yes, so I do see sometimes people get a little bit stuck in that direction.

Chris Ghubril  10:00

That’s good. That’s super helpful, too.

Michele Davis  10:22

Yeah, I think it is really helpful, I think in a lot of ways. And correct me if I’m misunderstanding what this is about, but I think what I’m wondering is, how do we navigate if we feel like the people that we’re in community with have different values or different ideas and dreams for us? Who is the community I should be thinking about when I think about entering into caring for my communal calling? Does that make sense?

Tracey Gee  11:00

I think so. I mean, I think what I hear you describing is like the tension that you have when you are … yes, community is a broad term, and so clearly, there are specific communities where we’re tied to and connected to that, like you said, have different values and expectations.

My personal experience of that is, yes, that rings true. And that can be hard when you go back and forth, and you’re not really sure. I guess the thing that I would say is, I think one important step is to become clear on what that is. So even your reflection on like, oh, what are the values here? What are the messages I’m getting about? What’s expected of me? How does that not align with myself? Because I think when you have that, or my experience of that, is that I could get untethered by feeling pulled by these things without ever asking like, Okay, how does that relate to what I value and what I am hearing from God and how that may not be the exact same as folks around me, and you know, so just I think, knowing that, having that awareness of how that is happening can be an important step.

Michele Davis  12:19

I think that’s helpful.

Chris Ghubril  12:22

I hear you saying like, how some of that has left you like untethered, this is the word that you used? What has that been like for you? Is that journey… was that difficult? What was that experience in navigating that tension?

Tracey Gee  12:38

Really difficult. Probably the task of my life that has taken the most courage. And during that time, I felt like the passage that God kept bringing to mind was Jesus in the wilderness. So it’s that kind of like, just Jesus grappling with being alone, grappling with his relationship with God, how he understands himself, you know, that was like, kind of the recurring image of that. It’s lonely in a lot of ways to find that. You know, wilderness is a really interesting image because it’s by nature untamed. So it does feel wild, it does feel like there’s no roadmap here. There’s no guideposts; it feels like sometimes it does feel lonely. It does feel like, I don’t know what I’m doing, you know, so I feel like yes, that was really hard. There was a good, I think, three-year period of my life where I felt like I was in that place, and was kind of the main image that I kept returning to, I was like, okay, Jesus in the wilderness, I just need to be here to experience intimacy with God in this place, even though everything around us kind of feels isolating.

Chris Ghubril  14:03

Thanks for sharing.

Michele Davis  14:04

Yes. Tracey, I think that what you’re describing resonates with a lot of people that, at least a lot of the people I know are describing similar things, probably for like different, like initial things that sent them to the wilderness, but that feeling of disillusionment or discouragement, over just a lot of things in the past few years. So I really thank you for sharing that. I wonder about as you were clinging to those themes, clinging to Jesus, clinging to that kind of hope in the wilderness, like, okay, if you’re talking to like someone else who’s like in that place right now, and you’re maybe out of it a little bit, it sounds like you know, what kind of words of encouragement would you give somebody if they’re listening to this right now, and they’re thinking, that’s where I’m at?

Tracey Gee  15:04

Oh, what I would say, you’re incredibly brave. Because that is courageous work to do. It’s not easy, there’s a lot that you can do to avoid it. So I’m just saying that, I think, I would also say, let yourself grieve, what you’re letting go of. I remember, part of my process during that time was that I … basically, there was like this job opportunity. And all these voices in my community were saying, like, you should go for it, you’d be great. It was sort of like this thing that made sense. And it seemed like the right next step. And I just had this sense of like, that’s not for me every time I thought about doing it.

My husband told me, “Every time you talk about that, you look tired. You look like you have less energy, you look drained.” And I was like, you know what, he’s right. That’s true. That’s how I feel. He’s picking up on something real. Anyway, I still remember the day when I gave, you know, sort of the final word, like, I’m not going to pursue this. And I was processing that with my spiritual director. And I was like, I feel like I have failed. And she was like, you have failed to fulfill other people’s expectations of you. And I was like, that is what I’m feeling. And as someone that had spent a lot of time trying to fulfill the expectations of other people, there’s a grief to that… Yes, that’s painful to let go of, it’s hard. And so I think I would say, you’re not making that up. That’s really difficult. It is a grief of its own kind. And so I would just say, like any grief, let yourself feel it. Let yourself move through that. Don’t try to rush past that. But because that can be really important just to let yourself have that grieving process. And yeah, and then I would just say, it goes back to my other point about who are the people in your life that can hold that safe space for you. That do see you that can be like, well, they can’t yank you out of the wilderness, but they can come alongside or remind you that you’re good, you’re okay, you’re gonna get through this. That kind of support was absolutely essential.

Chris Ghubril  17:46

You know, Tracey, thanks for being so vulnerable in sharing that. I hear you say, you have failed at living up to other people’s expectations as yourself. And that hits and that’s real. And I as an Enneagram 2 wing 3. Like, man, I don’t want that. But I do that.

Michele Davis  18:14

Oh, my gosh.

Tracey Gee  18:15

I’m a type 3. So you imagine how I feel?

Michele Davis  18:20

Okay, so I’m a type 1. And so I was hearing that like, yeah, you failed and your inner critic was already telling you were failing the whole time.

Chris Ghubril  18:33

All these people that I love have been let down.

Michele Davis  18:36

Oh, gosh.

Chris Ghubril  18:37

Yes. But speaking of like, Enneagram … you’re like a pro at all this stuff, right? Like, you know, Enneagram and StrengthsFinder and all of that, like, how is studying those things? How is that helpful in us, understanding ourselves?

Tracey Gee  18:52

I am a sucker for all of this. So one of my friends joked with me, there’s just like, you’re like, it’s like Pokemon for you. It’s like you just have to pass them all. I have four certifications. So Enneagram, StrengthsFinder, a newer one called Working Genius.

Michele Davis  19:10

I know Working Genius.

Tracey Gee  19:12

Really?

Michele Davis  19:13

My direct supervisor is real into Lencioni so we know all that stuff. It’s a good one. Keep going.

Tracey Gee  19:22

And then there’s a DEI one called Cultural Intelligence. So yes, I mean, I think, it really came out of my desire. You know, I just started noticing how much I enjoyed working with people, helping them understand their potential, their strengths, and so these tools just made sense as a way to. I think what they do at their best is they give you a category, they help you articulate some things you feel, you know, I just had a consultation earlier and she was like, oh my gosh, these are things that are totally true with me. Now I have a word for it I am like, yes, that’s what they do. They help kind of give you that articulation in some cases if you’re doing it with a team or other people where, yeah, you can have a conversation about that and have a reference for that. And that’s really helpful to learn how to process to learn how to figure out like, how do you want to be intentional with that, then you know, so I just think, that’s all they do. They’re a little mirror, and you have to hold them with a grain of salt because none of them … I always give the caveat like, this is not who you are, as a human being, this is not you know, all of who God has made you to be, this is one slice of it. So you have to really ask, like, what is this assessment telling me? What’s it trying to mirror to me, and then you have to … that’s only the first part of that, you also have to then personalize it. Because you know, something like StrengthsFinder, one thing I have to do that all the time.

So I’ve seen so many people take it. And then they read through the report, and then they’re like, Oh, that’s nice. And then they move on. And it’s completely useless. Because it doesn’t mean anything in their actual lived experience. So I’m a huge believer in needing this to be embodied and needs to be rooted in people’s real selves and reality, not just like kind of head knowledge. So looking for ways to really integrate it, have it be embodied, have it be personalized and connected to what’s meaningful to them. Because without that, it’s not very useful. And it just becomes like a fun exercise in your head without much impact on your life. But, you know, like I said, I’m a fan of them, because they do offer that ability to see yourself in a new way, have that category. And I think that categorization is what allows you then to take insight about yourself from one area and then apply it somewhere else. And so I think that’s really fun when you can make that kind of connection.

Chris Ghubril  21:55

Yes, that’s good. You don’t want to put those Enneagram 4’s in a box. And so you gotta give them that freedom.

Tracey Gee  22:03

There’s no other 4 like you, you’re completely unique.

Michele Davis  22:06

Oh my gosh! that’s so much. How do all of these different Pokeman cards of my soul work together? Like, okay, so here’s the scenario, like Chris and I discovered recently that we have the same top two strengths. We’re both Woo, Communication. And then he’s Positivity. And I have that fourth. But we’re different Enneagrams and we’re different people. So how do those things intersect? Or how can that help me know more about how I might uniquely live out those strengths versus how Chris would do that, though, we are co-hosting a podcast together right now. So in some ways, we found that a team connection. Anyways, like, tell me more about that?

Tracey Gee  22:53

Yes, I love that. I love that you’re asking about that. That is really fun that you both have Woo and Communication and here you are, co-hosting a podcast. I think again, that’s where it goes to, you have to ask like, what is this assessment telling me about myself, and not overdo it? So you know, as much as I believe in any of them, none of them are like, this is who you are as a whole person.

I think that in my experience, things like Myers Briggs or DiSC, they help describe what you do. So they’re a little bit more behavior based. The Enneagram, really the most important thing to know about it is that it is a motivation. It’s like why you do, what you do. So I always say like Myers Briggs does. That’s what Enneagram is really good at: why you do, what you do. Because that’s where I think there’s a limitation sometimes on how Enneagram is talked about, like, well, all twos do this, or all eights do, then like, that’s not actually true. That’s not that helpful. You have to look at why you’re doing what you’re doing. And I think that’s what the Enneagram illuminates really well. Which is looking at your motivations and looking at you when you’re in a place of health versus when you’re in a place of stress and what happens to you in your motivation. What are healthier ways to engage with what’s going on around you versus not. Anyway, so I think Enneagram is great at why. And then StrengthsFinder is really only trying to tell you how you do your best work. So, StrengthsFinder is all very process oriented. And people also get confused about that. Because they think well, communication is one that people will tell me a lot like, Ah, I have this job where I have to do all this communication, but I don’t have communication as a strength. And that’s where I have to help people tease apart like no, Strengths is really looking at, that framework is really looking at, how you do what you do, and process that outcome. So there’s 34 total strengths, you can use any of the 34. The more clear example is to say like, you know, Gallup actually did a study to see like, is there a CEO strength? Like looking at CEOs of major companies and whatnot? And do they all have the same strength? And actually, no, you can be a very effective CEO using any of the strengths. There are not ones that are tagged as like leadership ones or CEO strengths. It’s like, no, it’s all about knowing what you bring, and using that, and then learning how to amplify the strengths of the people around you as well. So, yes, so that’s where I was, I would say; what, why and how.

Chris Ghubril  25:45

That’s fascinating. And I love all of that.

Michele Davis  25:51

Okay. Especially that part about the CEO? Or just that there isn’t a CEO strength, there’s not like, one way to you know, what a CEO does is, I think, lead and vision, you know, that there’s, we can be our whole selves, who we are, and then bring that to fulfill the task at hand.

Tracey Gee  26:17

Yes, exactly.

Michele Davis  26:21

Absolutely. You know, in creative form part of our purpose is we’re wanting to really help people to find their calling in their place in God’s story, which is a lot of your work, you know, like really practically helping people to find their calling. And one thing I’ve heard you say to that, is that, there are clues or signposts in your calling, in your uniqueness, which I think is making me think of this conversation we’re having right now about all of these different elements and getting to know ourselves and putting that together to calling. So I think I’m curious for someone who’s maybe like, with us right now, who is like, I, this is new, I haven’t really thought about how to find my strings. They are maybe right now googling Enneagram. Maybe that’s a step one. But how can a person start to take inventory of those things and of their uniqueness in order to channel that towards their next step in God’s story? What do you think about them?

Tracey Gee  27:38

One, I think, is to even have that mindset that that is there, that it’s waiting to be discovered, and God has already placed those things in your life. So one of my core passages is Matthew, I think it’s 13, it was talking about the pearl of great price, or the treasure in the field, that that person goes and sells everything that they have to get that pearl or to get the treasure. And, you know, we often talk about that, as far as like, that’s the gospel. That’s Jesus, which I totally agree with. But I also think, I really think of that passage when I think about this idea of calling because I think there’s just a fundamentally different approach that you have if you assume that there is already treasure in your life waiting to be found and waiting to be invested in, that God has already placed it there, versus it’s something that you’re needing to muster up or create yourself, you know, so even, yeah, I mean, even the title of the event, like Created For, like, yes, there is a Creator, and God has put these things in your life. So our job is not to manufacture them, our job is to go looking for them. And when we look for them, just like in the passage, it’s worth investing in, it’s worth everything you have like to get that into, to engage with that. And so I think, first of all, I would say that’s a different mindset. And it hopefully gives a curiosity about your experiences and your life and your design and your strengths and all those things to pay attention to.

So yes, I’d say that’s the first thing. The analogy that I use for that is like, you know, I don’t know if this happens in other cities, but in LA, you’ll see people on the beach with like a metal detector. So they’re like sweeping this thing in order to look for some sort of treasure. I don’t know how effective it is, but, you know, I’m going to see these folks with that. And it’s like, yes, these tools like StrengthsFinder, Enneagram, it’s just the metal detector to help you like zero in and be like, ooh, pay attention to this or look at that a little bit more, like dig a little bit deeper. But that’s kind of what it does at its best, kind of alerting you to like, hey, here’s something to pay attention to. You should look around this area.

So in the span of the experiences of our lives that help can help give a little bit of focus to that. So I would say, one is that mindset. I mean, you know, that question that people often ask throughout, which is like, what advice would you give to yourself when you were 20 years old or whatever, you know, like, that kind of thing?

And I think the way that I would answer that question has really been informed by the work that I do now, which is, I would tell myself, make a list of the experiences in your life that you did, and you feel like you did well, and also really enjoyed. So this is regularly something that I kind of teach in workshops and whatnot, train people to do, which is to look at this thing called peak experiences in your life. So make a running list of these things. Times in your life could be big, small, big moments, small moments, that you just feel like, I did this, I feel like I did it well. And I just love doing it. I felt energized, I felt alive. People often use the word “fun,” you know that, the kinds of things that you do that feel like, Oh, I can’t wait till I can do that, again, that kind of thing. And make a list of them and keep track of them and really understand them.

So one thing I am fond of talking about is just sort of how we do observation and interpretation, application of Scripture, well, we can do that with these experiences in our lives, too. Because in my opinion, that’s the way that God has shown up already in your life. So how do you go back to that? How do you learn from that? How do you study that? How do you hold curiosity and space even for what that experience is trying to tell you about some of those things of how you’ve been made. That’s what I mean by clues because they’re there, but you have to investigate because more often than not, people have these experiences. I’ve never once led a workshop. I’ve done this now with like 1000 people. I’ve never had anybody say like, I didn’t have that experience, but almost nobody tells me like, oh, yeah, I’ve already really deeply reflected on and understood this experience. So they’re there. But we haven’t often been taught that that’s a thing. Or that we should pay attention to that. So again, if I could tell myself one thing when I was like 20, I’d be like, write those down, keep track of them, come back to them. Notice them, study them. Those are telling you something really important about what you’re made to do.

Chris Ghubril  32:52

That’s good. Yeah, get that metal detector out and look for those Rolexes in the sand.

Michele Davis  32:58

Oh my gosh! That’s awesome. Okay, I feel like this is just ministering to me so much like, but one of the things I think of, as I heard you talk about like finding those things that help you feel energized and alive. Certain things come to mind, for sure in my life, but then I immediately think, oh, to try to preference that or ask that or seek that, seems selfish or seems like self-probe, you know, that sort of negative talk in the back of my mind that wants to make me feel bad for knowing what I’m good at? You know, I want to get rid of that voice. Do you have any ideas? Help me get rid of this voice, Tracey. What do I do?

Tracey Gee  33:45

That voice is so strong. It is not just you. It’s so prevalent. I’ve literally seen pastors give whole sermons on that point. So to me, this is a way that we overly focus on Genesis 3 over and above Genesis 1. We overly focus on sin and you are sinful and yes,  I believe in that. But we kind of almost like have amnesia about Genesis 1. We are created in the image of God. Created well. like, God sings about it. You know, God is like excited about this. And we don’t, I don’t know, come back to that in quite the same way. So yeah, I think there’s a lot to be said about it. You know, I’ve heard some people talk about as far as like, yeah, original sin, but there’s also original goodness.

So trusting that those things that bring joy, that’s part of your original goodness, and how you fear God’s image in a way that is unique to who you are. So I totally agree. I think that that is a huge issue that I see for a lot of us that have grown up in faith and, yes, there’s so much more I could say about that. But basically, I think you’re not alone. You’re not making it up. I think that’s very real. I think that’s really important to untangle. And that’s why I say like, it’s important to note that. I think I talked about this in the talk, but just that idea of knowing God and knowing self like those are not at odds. Those are not in opposition to each other, knowing yourself is not you being sinful or not trusting God or not caring about God. No, it’s actually the opposite. It’s actually you paying attention to who God has made you to be. If we believe that God has created each one of us in God’s image then that work is simply paying attention to God’s intention and design and creativity.

So I think it’s really trying to break down that binary between those things. And instead, to say, no, actually, a deeply embodied sense of how I bear God’s image, that’s a really good thing. That’s actually, again, clues to some of the best that you have to offer to the world and not at all a selfish thing. It’s actually really important. I think that we do that. But we get cut off from that kind of thinking that I think is so pervasive.

Michele Davis  36:34

Yes, and that’s good news, like, yes, we are sin centers, or have sinned, whatever. But also, we’ve been set free. And we’ve been given a spiritual rebirth. This has been just incredibly encouraging.

Tracey Gee  36:54

Yes, I came to faith as an 18-year-old. And I think, it took me a minute, I remember, like being much older and being like, I’ve been following Jesus now for like, decades. And yet, still, my main self-concept is that I’m sinful and not to be trusted. And shouldn’t listen to myself, you know, that’s weird. You know, there’s something amiss about that, you know, so that’s where Ignatian thinking has been really helpful. And I think even how, like we conceive of and talk about and think about our desires, that’s another area that’s really fraught, that I think, oftentimes kind of intersects with calling and questions of calling. And so that’s also something that I’ve tried to do is to help people untangle how they feel about like, the simple thing of like, what do you want is like, not a question that feels okay to ask sometimes, because it feels like I’m being selfish. It feels like I’m not trusting God and being sinful. When in reality what Ignatius says is that in a spiritually disintegrating person, their desires maybe shouldn’t be listened to, but in a spiritually integrating person, those desires are from God, those desires are worth paying attention to and are sacred. And so yes, absolutely. All of that. All of what you’re saying.

Michele Davis  38:22

Wow. So as you ran the metaphorical metal detector over your life, what gems and treasures of talent, experience or passion has God given you and what needs to be done next for you to dig that up and dust it off, and put it on display both to give glory to God and to bless the world?

Thank you so much to our friend, Tracey Gee for sharing all this wisdom with us. And I think you should go right now and give her a follow on Instagram or Tik Tok @traceygee.me that is T-R-A-C-E-Y-G-E-E dot M-E.

Created For is hosted and produced by Cru. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe, rate or review it wherever you listen. For more resources to continue your journey to living out your impact. Check out the show notes on our website. cru.org/createdfor and follow us on Instagram at _createdfor.

Thanks for listening.