Julie Chang  00:04

You’re listening to the Creative For podcast. We believe that everyone is created to make a unique impact in the world. Join us as we explore everyday lives and how they find their place in God’s story through calling and design. I’m your host, Julie Chang. In this episode, Samantha and I have a conversation with Emmy Award Winning Editor Christian Serge. Christian is a creative of many trades such as music, film, photography, and a fellow podcaster with his own series titled, “Smart Guy, Dumb Guy.” Christian has pursued a variety of jobs including co-creating the first 3D, 360 camera; and, has worked with different companies such as Wyndham, Sony, Under Armour Condition One, and Save the Children, to name a few. He is a father of two and currently resides in San Juan Capistrano, California, with his wife, Anna.

Julie Chang  01:05

And welcome back to the Created For podcast and I’m your host, Julie Chang. And here today we have Sam Holland as a co-host on the podcast, and our fantastic guest named Christian Serge. Christian, thank you so much for joining us.

Christian Serge  01:22

Hey, thank you for having me. I really appreciate doing this.

Julie Chang  01:25

Now Christian, I would just love it if you told our audience a little bit about yourself, why don’t you to introduce yourself.

Christian Serge  01:31

Hi, everyone. My, like Julie said, my name is Christian. I’ve known her for quite some time, and we’ve had so many different kinds of experiences together and shared in church and in life that, I’ve just learned a lot from her and have really taken her opinions and experience and really applied them to my life and it’s really made me a better person. So thanks again for for having me. Julie.

Julie Chang  02:00

Thanks, Christian. Thanks, that means a lot. So Christian, you live in California, and you, you’ve, [ ] you and I met each other in Salt Lake City, Utah, where I reside, and currently you live in Los Angeles. Right?

Christian Serge  02:20

So I live actually in Orange County, there’s a big distinction in Los Angeles, you’re either from LA, or you’re from Orange County. But I’m Orange County proud. But I’m more right in between San Diego and Los Angeles. So if you put a dot in the middle, so I’m about an hour from either city, but I live in a small mission town or Spanish mission town called San Juan Capistrano. And Ana and I, my wife, we decided early on that we wanted to live in this city, because of the population is not like us. We wanted to have experiences that expanded our way of thinking and maybe made us a little bit uncomfortable sometimes. But we decided to live in this area where we truly are probably one of three white people, in about 2000 people. It’s a very high Latino community. And it’s great, it’s awesome. We’ve really enjoy this area. There’s on a Friday night, we typically have mariachi music, the smell of tortillas and enchiladas. There are people selling fresh fruit, and people selling sweet bread. So we love it. We we love to be in here. Occasionally we do get nervous because it’s just unfamiliar territory. But I’ve lived in, in California now for total about 12 years. And before that I grew up in Las Vegas and spent some time in Utah. And yeah, I’ve been a professional musician and a photographer for most of my life. And so my experiences from traveling to over 41 countries, working in all of them, has sometimes made me very angry when I see so much hate in the world. When I just realized that, you know, human beings, we’re all the same, we really are the same. We want the same things. That humans are humans. It’s not, it’s not five or six different types of people. It’s actually humans who have the same feelings, the same thoughts, and the same ideas. And we can do this and it’s one planet and we should help it and why not? Why should we not help it? We want to live in a better place. So that’s me in a nutshell.

Samantha Holland  04:37

I’m so curious about, Christian, the fact that your family has chosen to intentionally live in a place where you’re a minority, as a white person. Is that a product of having, you said you’ve been in, traveled and maybe lived in 41 different countries, is that the part of your story that sort of informed this part of your calling, where you really want to immerse yourself in a different culture?

Christian Serge  05:02

When we decided to live here, the first thought was, well, it is less expensive than most places in California. It’s also three miles to the beach. And my wife said, “Well, let’s live in a place that we want to live. Let’s go in the neighborhood. And let’s roll around.” And so when we, when we walked around this area, and started meeting the people, it was a bunch of families that were so kind and generous to us. And we actually said, “Hey, we’re interested in, in buying this house here, we’re moving in, can you tell us about yourself? Can tell us about the neighborhood.” And they were so kind to us and welcoming, actually were welcoming us into the neighborhood. And so we, we decided to do it. It’s been really grounding, it’s been enlightening. And even when there are maybe fights in the alleyway or seeing the way that this, the culture here handles situations, the way they communicate or not communicate with beliefs, the way the police treat them. The way things happen is so different from our lives that, you know, we sit down, oftentimes, me and my son and daughter, me, my son, and my wife, and we process like, “What’s different about this? What are we not used to? And why did they handle it that way? And what can we learn from this? And how do we become a better supportive group to assimilate here and not change, try to change this culture here?”

Julie Chang  06:27

I can attest to that. I came to visit over a year ago, before, right before COVID. And I got a chance to witness Christian’s life — the tuba playing through the wall and going, “What is that?” and you saying, “That’s the next door neighbor, it just plays the tuba a lot.” And showing me the garage and just making friends with the neighbors. I can attest to just how wonderful your neighbors are, and how welcoming and integrated you and your family seemed to be in that neighborhood, so. . . .

Samantha Holland  06:56

Christian, you mentioned when you were kind of scoping out where you wanted to live, that you were interacting with families in this community, and that they were so kind and open to conversation, when you actually moved in, was it hard to break in? Was it a tight knit community? And it was hard to make friends and things like that, or how did that go?

Christian Serge  07:18

Yeah, that’s always the interesting part. When we first started coming around, I’m a people person, I love to meet new people. And so my goal was to check things out, as well as try to disarm, if there were any prejudices on my side or external prejudices on, on my neighbor’s side. And so I felt that it was important that regardless of where I was, even if I was going to be late for a meeting, if there was something that’s going to happen, if if there was a conversation that a neighbor wanted to have with me that I really wanted to know that I was, I saw them and then I heard, hear them and want to engage and be a part and not a different part. And so, yeah, it’s been two years now that we’ve lived in this neighborhood. No, three years since we’ve lived in this neighborhood, and yeah, we have some really good friends and so yeah, it was difficult, but it’s, it’s worth it. You know, we’ve had spontaneous garage dance parties, where they’ll play the latest, you know, Mexican hit, and then they’ll be like,”Hey, do you want to listen to some Spice Girls?” I’m like, “No, no, not not now. I’m wanna listen to your music.” No, they’ll play like an English version of Shakira for my benefit.

Julie Chang  08:41

That’s funny. Christian, you said a little bit, but I was curious, from what you’re sharing with us in your story, how would you say that your environment shapes you in your calling? Like even your current environment, and in your historical environments, how has that shaped you in your calling?

Christian Serge  08:59

Gosh, I used to think that my calling was music. I’ve been a worship leader. I’ve been in rock bands. I played with some big name players and write my own music. And then I thought my calling was helping the environment and being an advocate. And then it was saving animals and I learned that I feel like the my calling truly is loving people and loving what God has given us. And it feels like a big calling. Or it feels like maybe too general, but I, I am taking and running with it because every day, something, God puts something in my life that I have been viewing it as a chance to love people, or love the earth, or love what his gift to me was.

Julie Chang  09:51

How does that, how does that translated into your, your even when you mentioned yet, part of you thought your calling was, part of it was music as well. And how does that integrate in that, into that part of your life?

Christian Serge  10:05

How does music integrate into my life, in this calling of loving people?

Julie Chang  10:09

Yeah.

Christian Serge  10:11

I love music, it’s the thing that calms me down. I’m an eight on the Enneagram, so my first response to things is anger. And I recently learned that being angry is not necessarily a sin, it’s, it’s what you do with that anger. We see God being angry in the Old Testament, we see Jesus being angry in the New Testament, and if he’s a perfect man, right, like you have this idea that you can be angry, but if you shame people, or you do something with that. So being said, being angry, music is something that has always helped me draw a picture of what the world should be like. I think that art is something that we desperately need, because it speaks the truth, in a world where, right now we’re having a hard time discerning what that is. And it’s the artists that give us a picture, are the prophets. The artists are the prophets of this world. And they see things and name things that we should all consider and look at. And so, for me, music, like many people, has given me a lot of comfort. And then writing music, specifically, and singing about something beautiful, when you speak those words, there’s power in that. And we know, we’re in a culture and a time, in a period of time right now, where speaking things out loud is being brought to a great importance. And I think that that should continue. And music helps with that. Whether it’s a small band who performs at the LA Public Library and becomes super popular, or speaking out against sexist, sexism or racism. Or it’s me writing something that I, heartfelt about an experience in Somalia watching a father wrap his daughter in his t-shirt and bury her in a shallow grave. Those are moments that people should hear because if it caused compassion in me, maybe it will someone else. So it’s really shaped my life in a big way.

Samantha Holland  12:26

Well and I think just what you’re saying is so important. Art is also the language that God’s, comes to us in. And back to the Bible, the Bible isn’t just narratives. It’s songs.

Christian Serge  12:42

Amen.

Samantha Holland  12:43

And it’s poetry.

Christian Serge  12:46

Oh, yeah.

Samantha Holland  12:46

And so the, the different genres, even in our holy book, as Christians, is an expression of God through people, that there, there is so much creativity in so many different ways to communicate, and to express truth, and love.

Christian Serge  13:10

Why is it easier to sing something that’s truthful than it is to say something that’s truthful? I’m not quite sure the reason. I wrote a song a few years back called, Stumbling Stone, and in the chorus, “It’s my stumbling stone. It’s in the waking, and my shame it wrestles me, but you will meet me in the valley. And I will wait for thee.” Pretty much taken from some Psalm that I was reading, I’m sure. But the idea that you can admit those things, admit harder things through song than you can through words. I think that’s one of the reasons why, in the Bible, we have such a big section of Psalms, is that it’s easier for us to do so, as humans.

Samantha Holland  13:57

I want to circle back to your community that you’re living in.

Christian Serge  14:02

Sure.

Samantha Holland  14:02

Because one of the things you said that’s so true, is that, Christian, you feel like your calling is bigger than your vocation. I mean, and I think, you know, in our lives, sometimes we think our vocation is our calling, and it is part of it. But then our vocation changes, and we get this identity crisis, sometimes, I know I have. “Wait, what’s my calling?” But then, through reflection and time, just lived experience, you can step back and see, “Oh, my calling is loving people,” in your case. And in all of our case, to some extent, but and I can do that through whatever vocation I’m in. But the constant is the community that you’re living in. I mean, there’s just opportunities every day to love our neighbors. Right?

Christian Serge  14:52

Right. Yeah, absolutely. This was really a hard example is, during the pandemic, Ana and I, we didn’t lose our jobs. And a lot of people here did, in this community. There were a lot of essential workers who worked at restaurants. But there were a lot of people, gardeners and things like that, who just didn’t have any work. And so we were like, we got our stimulus checks, as checks as well, both of them. And many people here, I would say probably 80% of the people that I asked, did not receive a stimulus check. And where the workers that we went and got sick, or the workers who fed us and kept us going, and the trash and like, all the jobs that; I don’t know, this sounds generalizations. Yeah, I always get hammered on my podcast for generalizations. So let me back up here. We went and asked my friend, Miguel, he’s kind of the corner pin of the community, I said, “Hey, we don’t want to be the white people that help. But we want to help and we don’t know how to help people in this, but we’ve been blessed with the stimulus check, can we do something about it?” And he said, “No,” he said, “I think most of the people that I know we’ve had money saved, we knew that this was coming, we’re okay. What you can do is just continue to be who you are, and see examples to help people: give them rides…or…” he just said, “You know, Lucia, she comes by and collects cans and bottles, I’ve, you know, set, continue to set those bottles out for her and just be here and be present.” And it was a little, we kind of felt like, “Why can’t we? Why? Why can’t we just like; should we get a table and just have a bunch of food? And then just like, give it out?” And he’s like, “No, I don’t, I don’t think so. I don’t think that would be well yet, like we love you here. But I don’t know if that’s, you know, just be here and be in the community. Hang out at the park and walk around.” So that’s what we did, then he came back later, he said, “There is one lady that, if you give me some groceries, I can give those to her.” And I was like, “Perfect, perfect! Like you just let us know what we can do.” So lots of opportunity. And it’s, the world is so full of prejudice and racism and preconceived notions. And I don’t even know what to call it, that when we try to help, or, in this neighborhood, we oftentimes really have to consider, how is it going to be perceived, and what do we do and even our desire is there we we just try really hard.

Julie Chang  17:41

And I just love that you asked your neighbor for the advice versus jumping right in and starting to do something to resolve whatever it is, as majority cultured person who has privilege compared to people in his neighborhood, it just, it’s such a, it’s a responsible and right thing to do. And it’s a very uncommon thing that I hear about with regards to stories when we hear stories of people who are underprivileged, or aren’t able to have as much,  people, one, just jump in and resolve it and just give an offer whatever, versus taking the steps and making an effort to build relationship with the people who are being affected and asking, “What what would you like, what would, what would translate as respect to you? What would translate as love?”

Christian Serge  18:35

Yeah.

Julie Chang  18:36

Instead of, “What is my version of love, and I’m going to give that to you, you know?” So….

Christian Serge  18:40

Yeah, I agree with that. It. I found myself just going, “Oh, I can help in a big way.” And then I realized, “Wait a minute, that comes, that comes from my majority, privileged, like, I can just do this.” And even Anna was like, “I want to do something. I don’t know what to do. I want to do this, I want to do this.” When, when the guy got run over behind, like several times, murdered behind our, our house, we were like, “We want to do something as community.” I was like, “We need to watch what this community does first. And then we can figure out what to do because we can’t just walk in and act like we can fix this, that would be the worst thing to do.” So, she agreed. She was like, “That’s what I was thinking, but I just I have this desire, I want to write cards. I want to….” So we just watched and learned and listened. But people are the same, they grieve, and we need help, and we need camaraderie, and we need closeness, that’s what we seek for, and that’s it. If we can just realize that it might help us as a human race.

Samantha Holland  19:44

It’s so wise that you met and found Miguel and knew, it was Miguel right?

Christian Serge  19:51

Yes.

Samantha Holland  19:52

To go to Miguel, and just, what respect that must have shown him, to go to him and say, “Hey!” Just acknowledge his place in the community. Like, I think you’ll know, like, how should we enter in, and what should we do, and how? He kind of give you the advice you had already, intuitively been thinking. Like, “I don’t think we should just hand out our stimulus check,” you know what I mean? And then he confirmed it, but then later came back and advised you, like what honor! What a place of honor you let him be in, you know, that’s his place in that community.

Christian Serge  20:30

Well, thanks, I, I hope it was the right thing to do. Again, we’re trying to approach it softly, and figure out how to integrate, and be ourselves, and love people. And yeah, it does feel again, it continues to me to feel like a big calling, because this is just a big shift in mine. It used to be music, that was my calling, to bring music to people. And then it was to inform people of the environment, and it’s just, it’s just been getting kind of bigger and bigger. And so I’m living with that, and and stepping into that.

Samantha Holland  21:06

Was there ever a time when you made a mistake? Probably not, but you never know.

Christian Serge  21:16

Here in the neighborhood, I don’t know if I would know the mistake, but I make mistakes all the time, all the time. Let’s see. So again, my, I make mistakes, oftentimes, in my quick judgments, and my, like, I just instantly judge like a, “Whoa, wait a minute, that’s not, that’s, something’s off about that.” I grew up Mormon, in a religion that points towards the things that I do. Like, I have to do all these things to be accepted by God. And if I don’t do these things, I’m not worth it. And there’s a lot of shame in that religion. And I converted to Christianity about nine years ago, is all, and that has given me a lifetime, you know. Thirty-something years of thinking that what I say is right, and what I was taught was right, and those things I have to do, and those words, regardless of whether they hurt someone, I didn’t need to say them. Wow, it couldn’t be more wrong. I couldn’t be more. It couldn’t, I feel like that couldn’t be more evil, actually, to be taught that. Because it doesn’t look at the other, it only looks at yourself. And so, as I sit here and try to think of many examples, there’s a lot of examples where I might set the table. I probably offended Julie a couple times, just by some of the words I said, we’ve set to dinner. You know, I think there’s one time, there was one time we were talking and you said, I can’t remember what it was, but you were like, “No, that offends me. And I do not like that. And here’s why.” I think it was at our dinner table. And I was like, “Oh, okay. Okay.” And I was like, “Julie,”

Julie Chang  22:58

Was it at the dinner table or was it during church? It was like, during our small group at church or something. Somebody said something. I do remember that time. And I just remember the response afterwards of just, “I am so sorry. I, I could see that.” And it was like the perfect response of, yeah.

Christian Serge  23:19

I mean, what do you do in those moments? It’s like, typically, when I say something that, that pisses somebody off, or angers somebody, where I say something that’s just horribly racist, or sexist, which it happens. If they like me enough to tell me, and not just ruin or just make the friendship done, then it’s my responsibility to try to fix it. Because I’ve said this a lot to people. I’ve had the awards. I’ve had photo awards and video awards and TV shows and things that I’ve done. And what I found is that it’s my, the relationships in my life that bring me the most happiness. And so, if I can have good relationships, I want them. So when I did offend Julie, she was kind enough to say, “No, that really offended me. That was horrible.” And so yeah, I got, I got lucky in our friendship, to be able to say….”

Julie Chang  24:12

I don’t know if I said the word, “horrible, but….”

Samantha Holland  24:16

You might’ve.

Christian Serge  24:19

You said it probably way better than that. But I knew that you were upset and I knew that I had said something. And so, thanks for accepting my apology.

Julie Chang  24:30

Something that you’ve been sharing, Christian, reminds me of a quote I was, I read from another podcast called, The Roll Down. And they were interviewing Reverend Dr. Su Chen Ra, and the quote is, “Lament acknowledges the commonality of our brokenness. The place where the sufferer and the perpetrator can meet in common space for confession and repentance.” And I just think a lot of what you’re sharing, and what you’ve shared in your story, I was just thinking about how has that shaped you and all these all these different commonalities? And I see the love, I hear the empathy. I hear the shaping of the beauty and the creation wanting to express. And something that I’ve heard multiple times that you haven’t articulated, but I hear in your story is, you lament that with others, like with your neighborhood, you don’t just try to go in there, and change things, and say things, or whatever, but you take time to lament and say, “Wow, that is, that’s sad.” You and Ana, sit down, your family sit down, and you discuss things and you say, “Well, what did we learn from this? What can we lament from?” And I just think that that is something where, when we are asked to step in our stories with God, it’s, there’s multiple things that he challenges us to do. And I think the hardest thing, one of the hardest things is to sit and lament, such a beautiful thing.

Christian Serge  26:08

Yeah, well said. Yeah. I agree. I can’t make that more beautiful than what you just said it was.

Julie Chang  26:18

Yeah, I think this is a great ending of our interview. I am so thankful for your time, Christian, and thank you for your story. There’s so many other questions that I have. If we had more time, I’d love to hear more about you growing up in the Mormon religion and what changed there. Maybe I could just ask that what shifted for you to move from growing up a certain way as a Mormon, to becoming a Christian?

Christian Serge  26:48

Sure, that’s a huge story. But I’ll try to encapsulate it. I really appreciate when people ask me that question, because I want people to know that, especially people who are leaving Mormonism. Just imagine, Sam and Julie, right now denying that the God you know exists, in that way. And that you believe in, I don’t know, Zan, the god of Zan, right like, and you’re full into that. Leaving the Mormon Church, it feels that way. It feels as if you are leaving the one you knew, the one you know, and the one you’ve been programmed to know. And you were believing in something that you have been taught is evil. So you have to process through all of that in order to go, and for me, my entire world had been torn down in one single moment, and it caused me to think. That moment was, I found out that my third child was not mine. That my wife at the time was having an affair, that she’d never loved me, and that she was going to marry this guy. And she’d been lying to me for the last seven years. And so everything that I knew, was promised to, in one moment, I was lied to on a human level, I was lied to and every promise being made, and then on a religious level I was lied to and every promise broken being made. So I was beaten down at that moment. And so then I got to ask those questions of, “Does God Exist? Who is he?” And really have the time and the space to go, “Yeah, I do believe in God, where is he?” And I didn’t know at that moment. It took me another 10 years to find who that was, but I knew that he was still existed. And I realized that, that, I don’t know if this is appropriate for the show, but the Mormon god needs you to do things to glorify himself. And the God of the Bible doesn’t. He’s glory, he’s glorified because he is, because of his creation. And that starts the difference between Mormonism and Christianity right off, and it’s and it’s a small change. I need you. I don’t need you to be, I want you but I don’t need you. And but that one degree after, you know, as you go, that one degree decides whether you’re going to end up in the Philippines or Japan, right, like it’s a big sailboat that’s going to like one degree when you’re sailing is a big difference from one degree off. So that took me to Christianity, it took me to that moment in my life said, “Alright, what do you want to be? And do you believe in God and where you want to go?’ And it took me 10 years to find God, and I’m so glad that I did. Did that answer your question?

Julie Chang  29:55

Yeah, I just love it. It’s so beautiful, and I’m so glad that you did too. I just, so often I think as we think about, if people can change when they’re completely disappointed, when you have a friend or family member who’s completely disappointed in the way life turned out, or life didn’t turn out the way they thought it could, or thought it was supposed to be, and just; you could have gone in a different direction, you could have gone in a closed off, bitter, “There is no God, I’m doing my own thing.” Instead of examining and introspection and going, “No, this is not, I don’t believe this, but there’s something else here.” And for people to know that, that, that’s not an uncommon thing that people question in themselves. I think so often, Christians shy away from wanting to share about Jesus to their friends because they think, well, they’re not going to be interested. And it’s like, that’s not up to anybody to make that decision. It’s up to that person to make that decision, and for friends to be there for other friends and love them and say, “If you ever want to talk, and I’m here. ” And, I think, for me, I would, if you were my friend back then and I knew you, I think personally, I probably would have shied away from wanting to talk to you going, “Oh, my goodness, he must be shut down so many disappointments in life, I’m afraid to talk to him about Jesus, because God has failed him. The god that he knew has failed him,” even though the God that maybe I believe in is, I don’t believe he fails. But the fact that you continued to pursue that path, and like you said, moved in just a percentage, and a diff,  another percentage, and another percentage of change just reminds me how God changes us and transforms us one percentage at a time. And I just think about how beauti…, you were gonna say something. Yeah.

Christian Serge  32:01

Oh, no, yeah, one percent at a time, I think that’s right. The one thing that changed my mind was a guy, a friend of mine. I didn’t know it, but he was a worship leader at the time. And he invited me to play in his band. Actually, his agent called me and invited me to play in his band. But he said, once to me, one, one night, he said, “Hey, Christian,” we were having a discussion. I was still Mormon. But I was, this event had happened. And so I was, I hadn’t fully left, hadn’t got my exit card. I hadn’t got the horrible letter they send you. But he said, I said, “Do you really think that if Jesus showed up at this door, at this night, today, and we answered the door, I would not see him as the same person?” And he looked at me and he put his hand on my shoulder, and he said, “Christian, you may not hear this, but I love you. And I want you to know that, no, you would not see him as the same person. That the God that, of the Bible, if he showed up at this door, he’s a kinder, gentler, more hopeful, loving God, who can love you through all of this. And that’s not the picture that you see. And I promise you that!” And I was so mad, I stormed out the door. I was so mad. But that stuck with me. In fact, I reached out to him and reconnected with him about five years ago, and told him of my conversion, and we just became good friends again. But it was, you know, 10 years later. So talking to someone like that, that really set me off, but it also stuck. That one seed, that one degree, Julie, that you’re talking about, it made a difference. And I never forgot it.

Samantha Holland  33:35

Wow, you never know that one, putting his hand on your shoulder saying this thing. And then how angry you were and how he probably went,  what, years, thinking like, well,  I pissed my friend off talking about how nice Jesus is. “But it reminds me, have you guys watched The Chosen?

Christian Serge  33:53

I’ve been asked that question several times. And the answer is, just the first half episode. So no.

Samantha Holland  33:59

Okay, I just, I’m not. I usually don’t like Christian movies. They’re pretty cringy. But Jesus is so, such a compelling human. And actually, all the actors really capture this human element and bring to life these characters that we’ve only seen on the pages of the Bible, and kind of an emotional and a lot of sense. But, when you said that, like Jesus, like if you open the door and Jesus was here, that’s what I thought of is The Chosen and the irony is that they’re filming season two in Utah. That place that Mormons built for something else, and they’re filming The Chosen there. Did you know that?

Christian Serge  34:40

A lot of Christian films and TV shows are filmed there. Touched by an Angel, was filmed there . . .

Christian Serge  34:42

in Utah, in Park City, the, all like five seasons. So, yeah….

Julie Chang  34:45

Really?

Samantha Holland  34:49

Crazy!

Julie Chang  34:50

I need to get myself an agent.

Christian Serge  34:53

God, God uses people for his, his benefit and in the strangest places. He never uses the place you think it would be rather you he go to the undisclosed places.

Julie Chang  35:05

That is very true. Very true. Well, Christian, thank you so much for giving us your time sharing your dynamic story and life. And I just pray that you keep on going, keep on learning, keep on growing, that sounds like the beginning of a rhyme or a song, but truly it is like, I’m so thankful that you’re in this world, and that you are keeping the faith and staying on the path of learning and empathy and love. Appreciate that.

Samantha Holland  35:44

Yeah, thanks, Christian. Nice to meet you.

Christian Serge  35:45

Thanks, Sam and Julie, good to be here.

Samantha Holland  35:48

How do you want to be shaped as a person? Who or what do you feel called to move towards to influence you and your perspective on life. Tune in next time as I connect with Eva Ting in New York City, as she shares about spaces that bring people together. Created For is hosted and produced by Cru. If you enjoyed this episode, then subscribe, rate or review us wherever you’re listening. For more resources to explore your calling and find your place in God’s story, check out the show notes on our website at Cru.org/CreatedFor and follow us on Instagram at _Created For.